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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Generation III: Criticized too often?"

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(GEN III SUCKS AND I HATE IT)
m (Protected "Talk:Generation III: Criticized too often?": All these walls of text... with people starting to argue... ([edit=sysop] (expires 10:26, 25 May 2010 (UTC)) [move=sysop] (expires 10:26, 25 May 2010 (UTC))))
 
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: If you mean no clues you could not get those 184 Pokemon in Gen IV, I think it was generally hinted with how they handled Gen III, that those 'mons would eventually show up.
 
: If you mean no clues you could not get those 184 Pokemon in Gen IV, I think it was generally hinted with how they handled Gen III, that those 'mons would eventually show up.
 
: Sorry--must admit confusion as to why people suggest this idea of a large amount off mons not being available in Gen III. --[[User:KatrinaTheLamia|KatrinaTheLamia]] 18:09, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 
: Sorry--must admit confusion as to why people suggest this idea of a large amount off mons not being available in Gen III. --[[User:KatrinaTheLamia|KatrinaTheLamia]] 18:09, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
  +
::This isn't really a place for debating this, but I figure I would point out that there was no way to get all the Pokémon without spending at least $140, not counting link cables and an extra GBA to trade with.. and a Gamecube and a GCN link cable. Don't get me wrong, I love Gen III to death.. it's just expensive as all hell to complete the National Dex. Either that or you would have a bunch of friends with all the other games, which I'm not sure if everyone in the world who plays Pokémon has like five friends all with different games. D:
  +
::Thankfully they improved that in Gen IV, with cramming as much Pokémon in their games instead of having only 15 different Pokés post-E4. ._.;
  +
::Oh, and let's not forget that FRLGE also had restrictive trade limits... FRLG you can't get ''anything'' that's not in the Kdex, not even eggs. E you can't get anything that's not in the Hdex, though I'm pretty sure you can "smuggle" eggs in that are of non-Hdex Pokes. So yeah Gen III was pretty insane to complete the Ndex in ''one game'' for. Have to be a pretty hardcore Pokémon player to achieve that. [[User:Tina|Tina]] 00:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
  +
::: Yeah, even I admit, it WAS insanely annoying to purchase the required amount of hardware to grab everything in Gen III's dex. As well, that is when the joke of giving two versions to sell more Nintendo products kind of hit critical mass. As with Gen I, that was something briefly mentioned... then in Gen III it kind of hit the ridiculous level (Two GBAs, Link Cables, Gamecube, Gamecube>GBA Cables, e-reader, Emerald, Ruby|Sapphire, FR|LG, Collesium, XD, Pokemon Box, Jirachi Disc and various e-reader cards).
  +
::: I will agree, that even without the wonderful addition of the GTS, Gen IV did manage to reduce that Sparta level of Pokemon game play. (MADNESS?! THIS! IS! HOENN!)
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::: I hope that when Gen V comes around... the notice how much preferable it is for players to not get a second mortgage their house to complete it. Even if it is still possilbe --[[User:KatrinaTheLamia|KatrinaTheLamia]] 04:04, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
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::::[http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=59319 Discussion here please]. Talk pages should really be used for discussing the article itself, not its subject. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana">[[bp:User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#000">darklord</span>]][[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 04:51, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
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::::: *blinks* well between the complete English fail here on presenting what you mean, this discussion was pretty much over already.
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::::: I mean, while I understand that this has been discussed to death (hence why I kind of dropped it in a form of agreement)... you DO realise that you said, "the talk page is to talk about X. Not to talk about X." to most people? I mean, unless you mean, that we are only to talk about the spelling, grammar and literary value of the article, I cannot have any clue as to what you just suggested as the policy in place here.
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::::: I mean, unless we go uber-meta, how can you talk about the article without talking of the context that the article is in, that is, the article's subject.
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::::: To bring up a summary, you just jumped into a discussion that ended, and said a confusing statement that talking about your article is a rather schroedinger's status here. As in the Talk we can both talk about the article and not talk about the article. Darklord, do you perchance have dog qualities? And if so, could you regale what the sound of one handed clapping is? --[[User:KatrinaTheLamia|KatrinaTheLamia]] 19:49, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
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::::::You hit the nail on the head, until you started addressing me with mean names D:
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::::::The talk page is ''meant'' to be used for discussing improvements, corrections, and inaccuracies with articles. Discussing feelings about the subject or topic is meant for the forums. That's why we link to the forum on the article page. You'll also get a wider response there. &mdash;'''<span style="font-family:Verdana">[[bp:User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#000">darklord</span>]][[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|<span style="color:#0047AB">trom</span>]]</span>''' 06:29, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
   
 
== TBH, ==
 
== TBH, ==
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In short, I liked Gen III. --[[User:KatrinaTheLamia|KatrinaTheLamia]] 17:54, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 
In short, I liked Gen III. --[[User:KatrinaTheLamia|KatrinaTheLamia]] 17:54, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
  +
:these talk pages are for discussing the site and how the article relates to it (like if there was a naming error or some bad links), any discussion directly related to the article and its contents would go to the forums. also, dont insult people, let alone an admin, thats just stupid. -- '''[[User:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">MAG</span>]]<span style="color:#696969;">NE</span>[[User talk:MAGNEDETH|<span style="color:#000033;">DETH</span>]]''' 01:01, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 10:26, 11 May 2010

By far the biggest source of bitterness I felt at both R/S/E and D/P/Pt was the inability to revisit the areas from the previous games. They've built up a fairly sizable world by now and it's a damn shame to keep it only accessible in remakes. G/S/C was the only time they got this right, and that's the reason I hold it in such high regard. --Toksyuryel 11:25, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I really think it depends on which online communities you belong to. In my experience, it seems that many current fans consider the third generation the best, if not second-best to the fourth. It's the second generation that seems to get the most hate from what I've personally seen, for reasons you mentioned such as feeling "cramped" or having a comparatively simplistic plot, or lack of environmental variation (none of which I personally find fault in, but that's my opinion of course). I find it safe to say the majority of pokémon players these days were introduced to the franchise via 3rd gen, and as such, hold it in high regard. Of course, these are just my personal observations ;) RHetoRic 12:20, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

The reason I hate playing Ruby is the surfing. It seems that half the overworld is comprised of water routes. And they simply aren't fun because it limits the kind of Pokemon that I use for a massive section of the game. Tercotta 12:59, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree that one of my biggest gripes with R/S/E was the abundance of water routes - as a primary user of fire Pokemon, it posed a bit of an issue. However, it does make sense in the context of the games. As the two villainous teams are trying to either increase the size of the land or the size of the seas, having the region be closer to 50/50 land v water makes some sense. That's one of the things I liked about R/S/E. The story, despite still being week, felt a great deal stronger than that of G/S/C. The fact that the villanous teams attempted to do something other than steal Pokemon strengthened the story and made them seem much more of a treat than Team Rocket ever was.--Cynda09 15:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Ruby was the first game I ever bought. As an eleven year-old, I instantly became engrossed, so, although my opinion on the merits of Generation III may be less valid because of a lack of yardstick (at that time at least), those games must have had some good qualities or I wouldn't have played them as much as I did! And as for the huge amount of surfing and large proportion of water Pokémon, my opinion is that Hoenn is a watery region, just as Sinnoh is dominated by Mt Coronet, and I think this dynamic works well. Plus I really like water Pokémon. -- Zizzimay 18:09, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it's criticized too much. It may have been a revolution, but it was a harsh one. The lack of connectivity with the earlier generations was crippling. In the first two games, all you needed was a friend to trade you a couple extras and you could complete the Pokedex. Then in generation two you needed four, which was tolerable as long as you and your friend still had your first games, but completing the 'dex was getting a lot harder. When Ruby and Sapphire came around with their lack of connectivity to the other games, it was actually impossible. When this news came out I didn't even bother buying the games and in fact dropped out of the community until Platinum. Battle enhancements alone don't make a Pokemon game - it's a game about trading, and trading died in generation III. I'd love to see a remake of Hoenn that addresses all of this, but until that happens, it's pretty justified not liking the games. Saiar 18:58, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I see a slight difference in where you claim is good and bad... while the pokemon aren't as good, it's not because of a lack of the first 251, because I didn't know any of the gen III pokemon until after I got to know the generation IV pokemon, as I completely skipped generation III. Also, the region's layout is awful to alot of people I know. The wide open part is a major pain, and it makes me want to switch to my ds versions. To be honest, I got so bored I stopped playing for a month and a half right in front of victory road.ShoutingRyan 19:09, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

The Pokemon were great! I loved the Gen III games. I could never get bored with them. I play them all the time (even tough I have got Heartgold which is, by the way, awesome!) They should remake them, add some Sinnoh pokemon, maybe even some gen V? I don't really mind, but in their defense they are awesome. Pokemon Sapphire all the way! Kingdonfin

I do personally prefer Silver to the Generation III games, but that's not to say that there's anything wrong with them. They have amazing graphics and music, and utlise some ingenious ideas (cable cars, a volcano, a desert, Contests, you name it!) which had not been seen in Pokémon before. A few of the new Pokémon designs may be a little lacking (I'm looking at you Claydol), but there's plenty of brilliant designs in there too; Latios, Latias and Groudon in particular are among my all-time favourites. Hoenn is a tropical region, so the Pokémon are bound to be more exotic! Lack of connectivity with older games is a bit of a shame (I would have liked to have been able to see my Typhlosion in action on Ruby!) but as stated in the article, it wouldn't have been possible with all the new mechanics. While not perfect, Ruby and Sapphire (and the other Generation III games which followed) are very well-designed and enjoyable games, and are certainly not worthy of the amount of critisism they receive. Taromon777 20:59, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks everyone for your feedback. It's great to see that a Bulbanews column has had such a positive response among our community. —darklordtrom 06:28, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Gen III....

I like Gen. III personally, since it was the only Generation I can remember in it's entirety (when I played Gen. I and II I don't remember much since I was younger back then) and I personally hope for a remake ^^ Stupid critics >.<--Darknesslover5000 23:48, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

In my opinion, generation III had the best pokémon designs by far. Thermorules123 11:04, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Frankly, I think Gen III beat every other one except maybe Gen I for Pokemon designs. Gen IV automatically comes in last because of... well, do I really need to explain it? They barely had any that looked cool at all, and then there's Palkia's back sprite... Diachronos 11:22, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Gen III was my favorite by far because it was the first version where I actually had to think about what I was doing and although the physical/special split occured later, looking back, I wish it occured when I first picked up the Sapphire my bro bought for me. Mackinz 20:05, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Gen III is my favorite too, mostly because of how much the world varied. I loved the city designs and how visually different each city and route was. A lot of new concepts were introduced in Gen III too, like Natures, Abilities, Double Battles, and the Battle Frontier. -Rycr 20:49, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Nice.

I totally agree with you. I actually thought about something like this the other day, but you beat me :P CuboneKing 02:46, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree it seems that many fans who criticized Generation 3 seemed to be disappointed with Gen 3's lack of connection with Gen 1&2. Originally I myself at that age had my hopes of battling Red again crushed by R/S limitations to the game. But after a few years I began to respect and appreciate the Hoenn region despite the games lack of continuity. Gen 3 may have been the Pokemon franchise gaming revolution either being a good or a bad thing nonetheless it evolved the game from something more than just elemental rock paper scissors, in it's own way the gen truly captured the concept of Pokemon.

If you think about it the Hoenn region may have been the Darwin Galapagos islands of Pokemon, revealing how species and types are deviated and integrated by Hoenn's vast multiple environments (Prof Birch's field mind you). Ultimately the Hoenn region built the design for gen 3 pokemon for not only they were exotic but also considerably smaller than previous Pokemon generations. Aside from my wall of text the story was well built fully integrating both villains and cover art Pokemon into a plot, rivaling environmental extremist who both aim for expanding Pokemon habitats by acts of terrorism, by awakening legendary pokemon almost destroying the world in the process. Also don't get me started on how Emerald's Battle Frontier broken the somewhat hellish trial of after story EXP grinding and PokeDex entries. Generation IV on the other hand did well to closely follow Gen 3 design so well as the author stated it's more like a Pokemon Generation III+ which might explain some fans disdain with D/P/Pt.

GEN III SUCKS AND I HATE IT

No not really.

Gen III was indeed a major step forward, and without it, Gen IV wouldn't be as awesome as it is. But it still sucked that there were literally no hints that we'd ever be able to get the 184 Pokémon missing from the Hdex. TTEchidna 01:21, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

hmm--just curious as to what ones were missing? As well, in Gen III, via trading between Fire Red, Leaf Green, Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald, Colosseum and XD, the only one that you could not get in some way (well, beyond importing games) was Celebi. Though, some were event only (Mew, Deoxys and Jirachi), the rest of the national dex could be filled with some patience. Such as being able to get to the point that grabbing Hooh from Colosseum would be a reality--or purifying Lugia in XD enough to bring it over to the hand held.
If you mean no clues you could not get those 184 Pokemon in Gen IV, I think it was generally hinted with how they handled Gen III, that those 'mons would eventually show up.
Sorry--must admit confusion as to why people suggest this idea of a large amount off mons not being available in Gen III. --KatrinaTheLamia 18:09, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
This isn't really a place for debating this, but I figure I would point out that there was no way to get all the Pokémon without spending at least $140, not counting link cables and an extra GBA to trade with.. and a Gamecube and a GCN link cable. Don't get me wrong, I love Gen III to death.. it's just expensive as all hell to complete the National Dex. Either that or you would have a bunch of friends with all the other games, which I'm not sure if everyone in the world who plays Pokémon has like five friends all with different games. D:
Thankfully they improved that in Gen IV, with cramming as much Pokémon in their games instead of having only 15 different Pokés post-E4. ._.;
Oh, and let's not forget that FRLGE also had restrictive trade limits... FRLG you can't get anything that's not in the Kdex, not even eggs. E you can't get anything that's not in the Hdex, though I'm pretty sure you can "smuggle" eggs in that are of non-Hdex Pokes. So yeah Gen III was pretty insane to complete the Ndex in one game for. Have to be a pretty hardcore Pokémon player to achieve that. Tina 00:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, even I admit, it WAS insanely annoying to purchase the required amount of hardware to grab everything in Gen III's dex. As well, that is when the joke of giving two versions to sell more Nintendo products kind of hit critical mass. As with Gen I, that was something briefly mentioned... then in Gen III it kind of hit the ridiculous level (Two GBAs, Link Cables, Gamecube, Gamecube>GBA Cables, e-reader, Emerald, Ruby|Sapphire, FR|LG, Collesium, XD, Pokemon Box, Jirachi Disc and various e-reader cards).
I will agree, that even without the wonderful addition of the GTS, Gen IV did manage to reduce that Sparta level of Pokemon game play. (MADNESS?! THIS! IS! HOENN!)
I hope that when Gen V comes around... the notice how much preferable it is for players to not get a second mortgage their house to complete it. Even if it is still possilbe --KatrinaTheLamia 04:04, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Discussion here please. Talk pages should really be used for discussing the article itself, not its subject. —darklordtrom 04:51, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
*blinks* well between the complete English fail here on presenting what you mean, this discussion was pretty much over already.
I mean, while I understand that this has been discussed to death (hence why I kind of dropped it in a form of agreement)... you DO realise that you said, "the talk page is to talk about X. Not to talk about X." to most people? I mean, unless you mean, that we are only to talk about the spelling, grammar and literary value of the article, I cannot have any clue as to what you just suggested as the policy in place here.
I mean, unless we go uber-meta, how can you talk about the article without talking of the context that the article is in, that is, the article's subject.
To bring up a summary, you just jumped into a discussion that ended, and said a confusing statement that talking about your article is a rather schroedinger's status here. As in the Talk we can both talk about the article and not talk about the article. Darklord, do you perchance have dog qualities? And if so, could you regale what the sound of one handed clapping is? --KatrinaTheLamia 19:49, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
You hit the nail on the head, until you started addressing me with mean names D:
The talk page is meant to be used for discussing improvements, corrections, and inaccuracies with articles. Discussing feelings about the subject or topic is meant for the forums. That's why we link to the forum on the article page. You'll also get a wider response there. —darklordtrom 06:29, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

TBH,

I literally just put batteries back into my old GBA and played Ruby again. These are the games that got me hooked, and for a while, I could see why there was hate for Gen III, but I really cant now.

The Music♫ The music in Gen III was fresh, and easy to listen to. This was one of the main reasons I started playing it again.

The Region IMHO, Hoenn was the most diverse region iv seen. Although I do hold Gen II very close, Hoenn has Johto barely beat. The people, the routes, just everything. Where else had you seen a volcano (complete with ash) in a game at that time? Yea, thought so.

The Pokémon Sure, some where blant ripoffs *coughthatmeansyouBuitiflycough* but some were really good ideas: Guardians of Sea & Earth, a lily pad (lol) a mongoose. And we cant forget Mudkipz.

But each to his own I guess. --Jats605 21:43, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I liked Gen III

I dunno--I thought Gen III was fairly decent. Keep in mind... I hated Gen I enough, due to its completely unbalanced nature it was presented as that I entirely skipped Gen II. Not thinking it was possible to recover from the large amount of fail that was Gen I. Mind you--I had gotten good enough at exploiting issues in Gen I, that I would take my team of three Pokemon (typically containing Omastar, Dragonite and Articuno), up against challengers with six Pokemon, and still handily win--every bloody time. Mind you, I have since then, lost that charm with Gen I (I am working on getting it back though). I mean, during my days of Gen I, I was looking into gimping my own team, just to give my opponent running chance (though, still taking into account various unbalanced issues in them).

I started up Gen III, thinking "wait... they are still selling this stuff? This has not crashed into a fireball into the side of a hill exploding, and everybody died?". I grabbed Sapphire, initially. I still consider Sapphire, Ruby and Emerald to be the hardest games of the franchise. Sapphire, after finding out about abilities, I grabbed five Zigzagoons right on the first route and started item farming (it was kind of the first idea I came up with when using Pickup). After a little bit of adjusting--have had skipped Gen II and all--I kind of did not really get why people suggested they were running out of ideas.

I mean--the Pokemon in Hoenn were honestly a lot different, for the most part, than Kanto and Johto's pokemon. And well, we DID have the joy of various Pokemon that have knives randomly grafted onto their bodies (making Hoenn's Pokemon even better in my opinion... Seviper, for example, is much better than Arbok in my eyes). The designs also suffered from their own batch of jokes. Such as the Awwright Pokemon, Mawile. The Bite Pokemon Poochyena, that rarely was found to actually know the move "Bite". The gender ubiquitous Pokemon Kirlia and Gardevior. The idea of also being able to catch a large Shark on a fishing pole, and train it to ferry you around kind of has humour to it too.

At first, I had issues really getting into it though--but well, then Red Chocobo and Zorak's Let's Plays kind of made me want to take up the series and stay. The first episode being Red Chocobo's Let's Play Pokemon Emerald.

I mean--from there I looked into stuff like Pokemon Adventures and what not.

If it were not for Gen III's execution and design, I probably would still be posting hateful crap on Pokemon.

In short, I liked Gen III. --KatrinaTheLamia 17:54, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

these talk pages are for discussing the site and how the article relates to it (like if there was a naming error or some bad links), any discussion directly related to the article and its contents would go to the forums. also, dont insult people, let alone an admin, thats just stupid. -- MAGNEDETH 01:01, 8 May 2010 (UTC)